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Poster: jgmf Date: Jan 5, 2019 1:11pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Vermoontains, I will see your NRPS and raise you a KINGFISH

I don't think KF had a record contract before Weir got involved.

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Poster: Reade Date: Jan 7, 2019 6:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Vermoontains, I will see your NRPS and raise you a KINGFISH

You're correct. Don't know how I screwed that up. They were up and running as a band tho, prior to Weir, which is still such a surprise to me.
Seems they were a popular 'club act' that made the jump to halls like Winterland and the Capitol Theatre with the juice adding Weir to the lineup brought.
With hindsight being twenty-twenty all the time, I have to wonder how they thought that was sustainable however. They're clearly playing their club act set-list at the shows on YouTube, and my question would be did they really see themselves penning enough quality new material over time to be a 'concert band' that toured and put out albums?

I'd love the skinny on Tolbert leaving NRPS for Kingfish. What was that about?

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 7, 2019 11:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Vermoontains, I will see your NRPS and raise you a KINGFISH

Not any real help here, but in the Bay Area, we defn weren't really aware of Kingfish til BW joined. In March of 75, I saw them in a bar in the East Bay suburbs of Walnut Creek, which held 100 people tops? Bob is playing then. Amazing. Then, that summer, when they play at the Bob Fried Boogie (ie, K&D band, Kingfish, JGB, then the DEAD at midnight) they are "bigger time" of course (Winterland). 76 they really hit their stride, those shows in LA at the Roxy in March were widely available on tape, and they make one album from them if I recall (but leave "off" the best Bobby songs!?...hmmm, you'd think I'd be okay w that at first, eh? har, har...).

But. they really were the "same" as you note; in effect, they were the "upgrade" of my HS buddies that were in the DEAD coverband (they in fact did a number of KF tunes too!). A "big time" garage rock band so to speak.

High Flow and JOTS will recall the Concord Pavilion where KF played a time or two w the rest of the hiatus bands (JGB & KD) in late 75/76.

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Poster: Finster Baby Date: Jan 11, 2019 11:01am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Vermoontains, I will see your NRPS and raise you a KINGFISH

maybe he left because he was pissed that they kept calling him Tolbert when his name was Torbert...... ;) :)

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Poster: Reade Date: Jan 12, 2019 8:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Vermoontains, I will see your NRPS and raise you a KINGFISH

That probably had a lot to do with it, no question. Plus I wonder if there wasn't head-butting around whose songs got included on albums.

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Poster: William Tell Date: Jan 12, 2019 9:28am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Vermoontains, I will see your NRPS and raise you a KINGFISH

You guys posting prompted some wiki research on my part: I think I read at one point that the exclusion of BW tunes on the live album was in part to "go on w/out him" since that was the yr, 76, the DEAD start back up full time...a marketing move by the suits? Unsuccessful, we'd conclude?

Not sure.

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Poster: Reade Date: Jan 12, 2019 9:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Hey Vermoontains, I will see your NRPS and raise you a KINGFISH

Wow. Not just the exclusion of tunes he penned -according to Wikipedia- but the elimination of every track they could containing his singing and playing on the tunes that were featured. Wow. Never head of that! Clearly looking to forge an identity moving forward without BW.
The bet at that point seems like it had to have been on Torberts songwriting potential but again I'd question if he had ever been prolific enough with that to justify his fronting a concert band that toured and recorded regularly.

As for Torbert leaving NRPS in the first place, the conflicting information out there doesn't help, along of course with his having left us so long ago. The NRPS website has Torbert bolting in '74 to form Kingfish, but '73 is cited other places as the band's birthdate. The site also suggests it was all about musical direction (that he wanted to go more 'rock' and away from 'country'), which very likely to my mind is code for dissatisfaction that more of his tunes were getting included on Riders albums.